Because that's what terrorists do, that's what terrorism is.
The main objective is to cause the maximum amount of innocent death, outrage, demoralization and to get high profile publicity.
You hate it, I hate it, but it is the only method left when you haven't the numbers or military strength to engage with your enemy in open warfare and all other avenues, like negotiation, are denied to you.

And of course it's 'not fair' that innocent people die, innocent people always die in war and they continue to do so.

Forgive me for saying that I think your questions are naive in the extreme.

 

I recently saw a movie showing something of the Palestinian side of the occupation. Followed the last days of a suicide bomber. It was the first time I have EVER seen anything of the Palestinian's side in a movie in 41 years. That is more amazing to me then the movies message. It made me think on like what you are saying.. how the fuck else do you retaliate when you can't even get heard in the world? When you can be invaded, and get fucked over and yet eveybody only seems to feel sorry for your enemy.

Side note is:

I was 27 before I finally met a girl from Northern Ireland who gave me a counter view to the English side of that conflict. I had never heard most of what she said, and began to see why those Irish had been fighting so hard.

 

ok, well, i am again done posting on these types of threads. i really want to like you guys for who you are not for what you have in your brainwashed liberal wishy washy brains...

you all hate it here so bad, then fucking leave, we won't miss you...

well, luckily for me, my college educated brain is safe and not dead because of the flag waving politicians...

and, fyi, most educators are more on your side of the aisle than mine, but you should know that, not me and my poorly college edumacated brain...

also, last time i checked, the US government does NOTHING whatsoever that could possibly offend or make harder on any race, religion, or etc for fear of fucking lawsuits...so, that whole line is complete and total bullshit...end of story!

 

CM, I love you and differing from your opinion here won't change that.

But the lawsuits simply don't apply to anyone who is not on US soil or a US citizen. Your government says it's fighting for freedom, for people to be able to enjoy the rights and privileges of living in a free nation and having freedom of choice.

There are plenty of folks locked up in Guantanamo who have not had any due process in law, either US or international, and this is an act suppposedly to defend freedom. There are numerous examples of US military or covert interventions abroad where the motivation has basically been to overthrow a legitimate government because that government won't play ball or has a different political ideology than the US (Grenada, El Salvador, Cuba, but there are others).

It comes down to this: If you can only see the situation from your point of view it's hard to be balanced about it. It's easy to visualise the standard Islamic Terrorist, and it's hard to understand wby they have so much hate in them that they will strap that bomb to their chests.

Imagine that you grew up on the West bank in a refugee camp and then consider how the USA looks.

 

well if this isn't the warmest fuzziest sweetest fucking post i've ever read....

<excuse me whilst i go puke>

can you tell where your nose and her ass seperate?

 

They target civilians because they know they do not stand a chance against the biggest governments and militaries in the world.

Israel certainly knew this when they resorted to terrorism, killing women and children, to drive the Palestinians out when they first set up their country. Since then the US has armed Israel to the point of having the best air force, best equipped and biggest army in the Middle East including nuclear weapons.

That leaves the little guys with two choices either let the rest of the world push you around for the rest of your life or fight back. It shouldn’t be surprising to anyone that humans will fight back when they are pushed far enough not give up.

They also see the people of the United States as responsible because it is our government and our military affecting their lives and for the dozen or more reasons listed in the constructive posts above us.

Who wants us to convert to Islam? The same small radical group of extremists that resort to terrorism. The real question is why have they become so radical and so extreme? And the answer is because we (the US UK and Israel) have the overwhelming power to manipulate and dictate to them, and force injustice on them.


Seems to me, if they were men about this, they would deal with in it a more adult manner.

OK I guess I’m going to have to tell more about myself than I wanted to answer this one Ace. See I guess I was a teenaged terrorist, or maybe not a man about it your opinion. In my real world I tried putting my 5’-4” 110 pound body up against the 6’-2” 200 pound bodies, but no matter how mad I was or how hard I tried it didn’t work. So I resorted to using what ever I could get my hands on. Then there were too many of them so I resorted to carrying a knife and used it one night when six guys came to my house. By the time I graduated I’d also graduated to carrying a gun and one night I pulled the trigger on someone that was unarmed but too big for me to get out of my house.
That’s all I want to say about those days except the reasons for it, and they were simple. I reached a point where I would rather kill or be killed than be pushed around any more and when they came to my home there was no place left to run.

Oh and I should add both the guy I stabbed and the guy I pulled the trigger on sat down (at different times) and talked a few years later and since were all married with kids by then all any of us could do is wonder how things ever got that bad.

 

Hell of a post.

How did Israel get SO important to the USA please?

There are scads of countries the US doesn't give a fuck about. Yet this little place is in the news everyday in USA news. Is it religious ties? Is it relatives issues (ties)?

I'm quite serious.

Every time I turn the news on the last 25 years I have sometimes gotten the impression Israel is some defacto state of the USA. Yet they don't have oil, there claim to the land is sketchy. So WHY support a tiny country a LONG way away like they are another US state when there are countries below Mexico that need help and the US don't appear to give a great toss.

And if its all strategic value. Why is it that every time there is a war in the mid east, US seems to have begged Israel to stay the fuck out of the fighting. Its like the US is their guard-dog, but I don't get it. What's Israel ever done for the US? France helped you get independence but I don't see France mentioned every day in the US news as if they are SO important. I'm not being anti-Semitic here. I really would like an American to explain it to me. It's to do with image I think also.

 

Perhaps staying off these threads would be a good idea, because you really don’t make a lot of sense. You want to like us for who we are not what we have in our brainwashed liberal wishy washy brains. How to you separate us from our brains? And if we’re the ones that are brainwashed how come we can debate using facts and opinions and you apparently can’t. And speaking for myself at least I surely don’t consider myself wishy washy which I’m not sure what that even means, but I think it implies thinking that bounces from one side to the other and you’ll have to show me that, my dear, because I think I’m pretty firm in my ideology and convictions.
Now as to this tired suggestion that criticizing our government and our nation’s actions and speaking and hoping for a better way of working with the world equates to hating the country, well that’s just starting to sound plane dumb to me. But instead of dragging up a dozen or more quotes from great people let’s try this. The next time your husband irritates you, or problems arise, or your children misbehave instead of trying to discuss it with them, or trying to correct them, well if you hate them so bad why don’t you just leave. Does that make sense to you?

And if your brain really isn’t dead and college educated as well why can’t you just find the faults in our opinions and set us straight. I think you may have already answered that though by pointing out that those trying to educate you don’t agree with your emotionally based preconceptions. Some how that just seems to me that you prefer your own ignorance

And your last statement I’m afraid is a sad, very sad, testament to that. Let’s just forget for a moment, (as you apparently have altogether) that this discussion is about US manipulation and aggression in foreign countries, but are you trying to tell me there is no racism in the US. Are you trying to tell me there is no religious prejudice in this country (or on this forum or even on this very thread) and are you also trying to tell me that citizens can sue the US government? In that case the assertion that “last time I checked” is what’s total bullshit because apparently you never have checked. And that’s the real story.

 

Oh if that could only be. Because can you guess where my tongue would be.

 

I don't mean this post as a bait of to incite hate. I will gladly accept and keep confidential any PM correspondences if advised. I don't see why this is not a fit topic if conducted without antagonism and I pledge not to cause any.

I have read etc, some history of the creation of Israel and yet I still genuinely don't understand the things I asked above. If it's a common knowledge thing in the US, I can only assure you it is perplexing for the average Aussie, at least the ones I know, and I tend to be a fairly well informed AU person.

 

You'll probably be surprised at the length of this post. Money and influence. Money to campaign coffers, influence in the media, local, state and national politics. Isarel is our guard dog in the Middle East, but damn the luck their "promised/home land" didn't have any oil.

 

thanks.

Money and influence I can understand.

But they have no oil so where did/does this money come from? I understand weathy Jews etc. would have gone there from Europe. But what economy makes Isreal so indestrutable when it seems its getting bombed every day..

Israel is our guard dog in the Middle East

In what way? What interest do they protect that is so valuable? I have heard statements from US senators etc that suggest that the threat to drive Israel into the sea is something the US can't allow. I accept the US has put a lot of money into Israel. I'm not seeing what you get back except the obvious hatred.

 

There is a rather large very wealthy number of Jewish people in the US and they have been very successful in areas of media, entertainment, law and politics. This makes them a formidable lobbing group and they in a very large way help fund our political machine.

The proof of this is that Israel is as you point out a very prosperous nation with very few natural resources. A significant part of that prosperity is the amount of foreign aid Israel receives from the US government. Yet as you point out it appears they are being bombed everyday. That’s because of the amount of political and media influence they have. If a rocket lands or a suicide bomber strikes it’s world news. But when Israel uses cluster bombs on the civilian population of Lebanon the world never hears about that.

Israel is actually our guard dog in the Middle East in that they are at least three times as powerful as all other Middle East nations combined. Remember the War with Egypt it lasted six days. If one of there neighbors even acts aggressive they send in the tanks and annex their land. No nation can stand up to even their air and ground attacks, and as I’ve said they do have nuclear weapons.

What we get in return, besides the money and political influence, is a Middle East allie that can turn the Middle East to cinders or glass for that matter and we still get the oil because it’s under the ground.

 

Thanks again.

It seems bizarre to me that at this stage THEY aren't doing more in the Iraq situation to aid the US. I mean, it appears the US is loosing it (imo) and US has had Japan and all odd sorts helping out.. and now that the enemies of Israel are attacking the US directly inside Iraq (Iran Syria etc). I mean I understand it could escalate conflict. But if they are such a powerful force.. seems bloody strange not to just throw down the gauntlet. Surely if the US looses Iraq that is FUCKIN' bad news for Israel.. something doesn't add up.

 

It may have to do with the alliance with the Saudis. Saudi is controlled by a totallitarian monarchy which holds it's population in check by fear, but being seen to be allied with a jewish state which is hated (and I'm not justifying that hatred, just reporting it) by the population might tip them over the edge. It would certainly cause them some diplomatic problems with their other neighbours.

 

Ahh yeah. Damn its all such a bloody jig-saw puzzle over there its hard to see all the pieces. thanks

 

I do not think there was any plan to say how bad things here in the USA. But it is my opinion that we need to look at us in the eyes of the world. And point the finger at what we have done to many of the world as well as our own people.

The few nations, foreign religious groups, and leaders that try to say they love america, do so mostly for financial reasons..

Americans did not get off on a good foot in history, they killed and destroyed the Native americans, and took their lands. We have killed more people than any other nation. We destroyed people with the atomic bombs. we have bombed and destroyed many peaseful villages, we have taken away our own constitutional rights, We have placed imbargos on countrys simply because we did not like their form of government.. We have sent the CIA into soverng countrys to over throw their leader and place someone that we wished . We threaten countrys, with destruction and then condem them for building up a protective army. We use chemical weapons, we have no respect for the Geneva convention. Our military run by our president is running out of control and bombing countrys with out the approval of congress or the american people.. Our government taps into our conversations, and are even doing it in other countrys.. UK tap on princess Di's phone calls. Tap on phones of Saudi Arabia. and probably many other countrys..

Are we the most loved country in the world that we once were? NO we are the most hated and feared country of the world..

WHAT DO WE DO TO CORRECT THIS I can't remember who put the post in about straightning up our stance with the United Nations.. Pay our dues!!! And present a positive attitude with the UN not a war attitude.

Although a series of good thoughts your clip from Newsweek Does not fit here..

 

HOW DO WE BECOME A FRIENDLY NATION AGAIN:

The thread seems to drift away many times. BUT several good suggestions have been made. There has been posts trying to make excuses for how we have become.

I think it was Trumpet that make the suggestion that we pay our our dues with the United Nations and use it for the purpose it was intended. If this was not trumpet then who it was Right on..

Any more good suggestions???

 

How about shifting some of that "Humanitarian Aid" that goes to Israel over the borders to help the muslims living in poverty in the West bank, Gaza, Lebanon, Syria etc.

If they get in a situation where they have more to loose (such as a secure future for their kids) then they may be less willing to get into a fight to get more. And they may stop blaming the USA for the situation they are in.

Please note this is not the same as "Appeasing the terrorists". Notice that at no point did I suggest negotiating with the terrorists. If you use your brains and your diplomatic skills you make the terrorists irrelevent to the populations that traditionally supported them, although it takes time and persistence.

 

Damn: another good suggestion...